A gay old time in the animal kingdom

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REbecca, You have summed up my ex exactly. He hated his father who was an alcoholic and a bully and by my ex’ own admission, he swithed off from him at an early age. My father in law died in 2001, so the search for the love of his father began. And he will never find it, because the only man that could give it to him is dead. How selfish to then do the same thing to his own son. I am left trying to bring my 18 yr old son through this without him going through the same agony as his father. If more people faced truth in their lives instead of avoiding and blaming others, the world would be healthier place.

People have Same Sex Attraction because they could not feel close to their same sex parent usually going back to infancy (although boys age 2 should shift from mom to dad as their primary identification).  This is not a deliberate choice.  The process of sexual identity formation continues through chilehood and teens and a lot of things can throw it off.  Temperment, sexual molestation, other trauma, etc.  And gays should not be shamed by others for not achieving this identification with the same sex.  All the same, it is a not a healthy whole self that they end up with.  That’s why lesbians become unusually enmeshed with other women and why gay men are so willing to jump into the bushes for anonymous sex. they are desparately trying to complete a their natural sexual identity by connecting with the same sex.  Its just they are doing this AFTER adolescence when it then becomes eroticized. 
NARTH is a psychological organization that offers help for gays.  Change may be possible for these gifted and sensitive people who find themselves with attractions that may not work for them.  No one should ever be forced to change, but we all can support gays with kindness and basic respect.

Below is an exerpt from an article by Dr. Satinover:
Why some boys are sexually attracted to males - “That for whatever reason, he recalls a painful “mismatch” between what he needed and longed for and what his father offered him. Perhaps most people would agree that his father was distinctly distant and ineffective; maybe it was just that his own needs were unique enough that his father, a decent man, could never quite find the right way to relate to him. Or perhaps his father really disliked and rejected his son’s sensitivity. In any event, the absence of a happy, warm, and intimate closeness with his father led to the boy’s pulling away in disappointment, “defensively detaching” in order to protect himself.

But sadly, this pulling away from his father, and from the “masculine” role model he needed, also left him even less able to relate to his male peers. We may contrast this to the boy whose loving father dies, for instance, but who is less vulnerable to later homosexuality. This is because the commonplace dynamic in the pre-homosexual boy is not merely the absence of a father - literally or psychologically - but the psychological defense of the boy against his repeatedly disappointing father. In fact, a youngster who does not form this defense (perhaps because of early-enough therapy, or because there is another important male figure in his life, or due to temperament) is much less likely to become homosexual. “

The discussion of what “should” or “should not” be in the laws of attraction get’s a little silly, don’t you think?  I mean, I could say, “I’m attracted to blondes… So anyone that isn’t attracted to a blonde must be deviating from what I would consider biologial.

Some people are attracted to fat people.  Some people are attracted to people with scars, or a certain eyebrow shape.  I have a lot of friends that go after women based on chest size… None of these have anything to do with the ability or inability to pro-create.  There are thousands of stories of people who get married in their 50’s or 60’s, either because that’s just the cards they were dealt, or they are widow’s and/or widowers.  When they have sex, is it because they believe they will concieve a child, even in their 60’s?  What about when someone is “fixed” to not have children anymore.  Is their continuing to have sex just a deviation?

The sexual attraction, whatever homosexual activists would say, is designed PRIMARILY for procreation. Otherwise what would force any species to be involved in such an activity: this is a bait to force a member of a species to procreate.

As in any life activity, there is an element of probability. Therefore there are deviations (including necrophilia, pedophilia,bestiality, attraction to the excrements, etc.) from the major purpose of sexual activity (procreation). These deviations are quite in agreement with what is observed in any statistical law, where there are “tails” deviating from the prevalent ( in our case biologically) NORMAL BEHAVIOR.

No mystery, no “pride”, simply deviations from the biologically normal pattern

Thanks Thom319, you continue to confirm everything I have read. One other thing my ex did to his family - for 7 months he went to counselling with me and denied the whole time that he had any homosexual encounters. AFter I learned the truth, he told me he was trying help me and to let me down gently. How do yo let someone down gently from this situation? It has only compounded both of my childrens and my own sense of betrayal. He is emotionally sick. Co-incidence - but his current boyfriend was sexually molested at school.........seems to be a recurrent theme with a lot of men who turn to same sex ‘love’. Maybe there past is just too much for them.

I mow the lawn every Saturday, and then we clean our home.  Often we spend Saturday evening with friends, and usually spend Sunday with our family.  My parents live on the east coast, while we are in the mid-west, and so we visit his parents, or his siblings, and our nephew.  We do not go to bars, we do not try and pick up guys to bring home with us.  We do not dance shirtless at clubs till 4am taking drugs.  We do not wear women’s clothing or shoes, or try and find out which Prada bag would match the new slip on loafers we just bought.  We don’t have sex with men in public bathrooms, or frequent bathhouses, or see if we can “turn some straight guy....”

The problem really is… All the, what I would lovingly call the “crazy noticable” gays… Are all that ever get noticed.  Couples like us never get seen, because in reality, we are essentially just like everyone else and blend in.  We don’t work to get noticed.  We just do what we do, and in reality, we are the majority.  The rest are the loud minority that is just ACHING to be noticed.  I believe there is a loving place in God’s world for everyone, whether I agree with what they do, say, or think.  It doesn’t mean I just shut up and say nothing if I disagree, but it doesn’t mean I’m on some idiot “rainbow rampage” to try and convert people, or anything else.  I speak from what I feel is a pretty rational place that I hope people understand, even if they don’t agree with it.

Anyway… Sorry that got long, I just wanted to give you a little insight on what I find to be a little more of reality, because I honestly don’t think that the majority of the gay community is what most people THINK is the majority of the gay community.

This is not to defend him, or anyone else that starts a family and then destroys it coming to terms with who they are, or their sexuality - But it occurs to me that for as long as society condemns gays, there will be those who are embarrassed about it, and try and hide who they are, all the way up to trying (and sometimes succeeding)to start a family, and then later in life leaving for what they really wanted to do in the first place.

I don’t pretend to know what the nature of being gay is.  I was raised very different than most people were, and I’m not here to say, “I KNOW it happens at birth!” or that it’s genetics, or learned, or from a lack of this or that or the other…

What I do know is my attractions have always been to my same sex, from as far back as I can remember.  I have a great relationship with both my mother and my father.  I am not flamboyant, I am not “Jack” from Will & Grace… Most people tell me all the time they would have never known that I am gay, unless I had said something about it.  I don’t have rainbows all over my desk, or march in parades… What I do is I go to work every day.  I come home and work on my Master’s Degree in Business Management.  My partner and I take turns making dinner for each other.  We talk about what happened that day in the quiet of our home.  We volunteer in a few local charities, and donate to programs that we find worthwhile, some having to do with sexuality, most of them not.  We watch TV in bed, and fall asleep to wake up the next morning and start all over again.

Corinne, I’d be happy to be your friend!!! LOL!!!  But really… Seriously… While we probably wouldn’t going to Coffee much, unless you live around me which is probably a slim chance, I’d be happy to talk to you!
If you have questions or anything, I’d be happy to talk to you, and listen to anything you have to say.  I respect everyone’s point of view, even if I don’t agree with it, and I try and give my opinion on things… If you want, you can email me any time at …

Maree… What your husband did was inexcusable… I have known other families broken by this issue, and I know how angry it can make people, and you have every right to be angry.

But the problem here is (and I make these comments based on my own experience with other people I know… I obviously would not know the specifics of what happened in your situation) if he had left you for another woman, would being “straight” have been the problem?  No… You married a very confused man… No matter what people’s views on homosexuality are, right, wrong, birth, learned behavior, whatever… He was obviously confused.  But marrying a woman, and then starting a reckless sex life with other men is not the norm.

Cheating itself is what hurts, not someone being gay.  He should not have made a commitment to you that he could not keep.  I never made that commitment to any woman, and I only ever made it to one man, my life long love and partner.  Your husband was wrong to do what he did, there is nothing that will change that, but it is just as wrong if it had been a woman, but you don’t revolt against the “straight” life as the corruption of marriage, you just realize that man was someone who cared more about his own feelings, and was never honest with you about himself, and that is unfair.

I have just been reading excerpts on line from “Growth Into Manhood” by Mederling (I think that is his name-he is the director of Exodus Int’l in Maryland, of the USA.) I am so excited to be reading these profound materials. He talks about what thom 319 mentioned: the homosexual’s search for ‘otherness’ when he feels like parts of his masculinity are missing or just not there. I feel like I am finally beginning to understand a little bit more about homosexuality.  What I need to know is how to really befriend a homosexual person. I find it easier to be friends with homosexual men - I like their sensitivity (I am a woman) love of the artistic, etc. I feel I could still use some pointers on being a good friend to a homosexual man. I find it harder to relate to lesbians. I had a friend I was trying to relate to and befriend, but she let me know she was attracted to me, and I was ‘out of there in a New York second’. I regret my knee-jerk ‘run response’, I know she is miserable, lonely, had a terrible alcoholic, poverty-loaded childhood, but that was more than I could deal with. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to be a better friend, point them toward resources that can help them, or whatever. I am a Christian. I point people to the Bible and to Jesus, but I never want to make a person feel like they can’t approach our Father God for help through Jesus. I want them to sense that I love them and care about them and want to be their friend, because I do.

To continue,
Although I personally believe that it is a mistake to cast any sort of ethical or moralistic judgment on homosexuals, I will say that the way your ex handled his situation was very irresponsible to say the least. Homosexuality, like everything else under the sun has no singular cause but is a culmination and an intersection of several factors resulting in a singular effect. Genetics ‘could’ play an influence as far as personality typology goes.

There is more that I can say here regarding the psychological aspects, but right now I just have returned from work and will be going to sleep soon.

Maree, hi. So I misunderstood your reply but it was only because you spelt my name as Thomo319, not Thom319. I thought you were making a snide joke and it was only after I posted my last comment that I read your comment again, and saw that you were talking about a personal event with your ex-husband.

At any rate, the account you describe regarding your ex-husband is a relatively common occurrence in response to what is colloquially known as the “mid-life crisis”. The time when our sun has ceased rising and can only now begin it’s descent in our lives. It’s an existential issue. Although personally, I’m 33 and I have yet to personally experience what it intrinsically feels like to know full well that my life is half over, I believe I have a decent grasp at its stark sense of fear. I also have had three friends in which their fathers suddenly decided that they were gay in their late 40’s or early 50’s and jumped ship. Simply put it’s an act of regression and a symbolic attempt at returning backwards to childhood. The shadow is also a source of unlived potential which not intrinsically bad.

Childhood is the time of the formation of our shadow. The shadow sort of stands in stark contrast to what we hold as our conscious personality and is the “left over” qualities that remain behind and get relegated to our unconscious. It’s also no coincidence that many have these images of imaginary friends at the same time during the early formation of our personality - it’s shadow play. The shadow always is of the same sex as the individual and will appear as such in dreams but with contrasting qualities.

Maree, I’ll continue in my next comment as there is a word limit to comments posted here.

You have misunderstood my comment thomo319. I totally agree with your comments and did not call you a ‘homo’. Your comment clearly gives quite the opposite indication regarding your sexuality. My ex hated his father and in the 6 years since his father died has never grieved or visited his grave, yet to all intents and purposes he outwardly loved his father. That is why he went looking for a man to fill his void. If only he had faced what he had perceived he didn’t have, then the outcome may have been a lot different. HOmosexuality is not genetic from any research I have read and it’s time the gay and lesbian community were stopped in spreading this propaganda about their condition before mainsteam society is diseased by it.

Funny how when one is worked up into the frenzy of their (mis)understanding they read into something things which are clearly not there.

For example, Maree claims I’m a ‘homo’ just because my comment is in between two pro-homosexual comments. Maree should learn to spend more time actually reading instead of conjecturing what I said. Further, Buffo the Clown (acting his part) claims to have insight into my life, values, and experiences without making any coherent point. Buffo(on) the Clown is more concerned with infantile and subtle personal attacks as a knee-jerk reaction.

My point however is quite coherent. The psychology of sexual attraction has been too overlooked for too long. Infantilism, regression, the ‘mid-life crisis’, and abnormal relations with the shadow and the anima (just to name a few) all have influences into the psyche’s perception of sex. Mainstream society would just rather say that our lives revolve around fixed genetics as that vaporizes any sense of real responsibility. Maybe this is also why we are so out of touch with deeper instincts that our physical health suffers. We turn to pills and medications to “cure” problems which were simply caused by poor behavior, choices and habits.

In psychoanalytic theory, the psyche is viewed as a self-regulating system. Homosexuality, as far as the psyche is concerned, follows the same rules of general sexuality - joining with the opposite in ecstatic union. In confusing the metaphor with reality we miss the point that the opposite is already contained within, although in a repressed and unconscious state. It is by coming to terms with what is contained within the unconscious that we are given that enlarged sense of life that I mentioned in my earlier post. This is achieved by endless integration through conscious work resulting in an ever unfolding of the personality. This is similar to the religious symbol of Buddha sitting in the center of the lotus which continuously unfolds and unfolds.