Talking about marriage Mr Trad, the Muslim leader, says “why don’t we recognise it when it comes to consensual relationships amongst adults?” Good one Mr. Trad but would you recommend this for all sorts of combinations or only this one because it suits you? Would you welcome in your community two men and one woman who consent to live together? I believe that no matter how people live together marriage should only be between one man and one woman. I agree with Rudd’s Labor Party’s policy which states exactly that.

Bill Muehlenberg wrote: “There are voices all over the world – including those of academics, lawyers and other elites – calling for the recognition of group love and/or group marriage. Indeed, if we accept the logic of same-sex marriage, then the logic of polygamy is identical.”

In a polygamous marriage ‘consent’ loses it’s meaning. One needs only to look at examples of polygamy around the world to see how it usually works out. Women are the losers. Even in the few examples where one woman is shared by more than one man, as was once the case in traditional Eskimo groups, women were just property. First born girls, for instance, were routinely put on the ice to freeze. As in present day China, women were not valued except in their absence. To equate gay marriage with polygamy is a stretch. sometimes, I think, a gratuitous stretch. Mutual, equal consent is the cornerstone of gay marriage and, in a better world, would be the cornerstone of heterosexual marriage as well. Fundamentalist Christian groups in America make it clear that they believe women should be subservient to men. The structure of the Catholic Church illustrates the same belief.In most of the Muslim world, the treatment of women (and homosexuals) is nothing short of appalling. It reminds one of the well established link between Misogyny and Homophobia. Gay rights are a subset of women’s rights in that they threaten the dominant role of masculinity. If gay marriage is a threat to ‘traditional’ marriage it is only because it posits marriage as a union or two equal people. Equality in marriage is something that many Christians are still unwilling to accept.

“In a polygamous marriage ‘consent’ loses it’s meaning.”

How? Are women no longer adults or lose their human agency if the consent to an arrangement that you disagree with?

“If gay marriage is a threat to ‘traditional’ marriage it is only because it posits marriage as a union or two equal people. Equality in marriage is something that many Christians are still unwilling to accept”

So now gay marriage is the ideal marriage because of perfect metaphysical equality.

Orwellian.

TB said: “How? Are women no longer adults or lose their human agency if the consent to an arrangement that you disagree with?”

People can consent to anything they like. In the polygamous marriages in this world, women are the underdogs.

TB said: “So now gay marriage is the ideal marriage because of perfect metaphysical equality.”

No, TB, I said that marriage on an equal footing is the ideal. Do you accept that a marriage should be between equals?

Dave’s question: Do you accept that a marriage should be between equals?

Equal how? Class? Age? Wealth? Intelligence? Attractiveness? Passion? Love? Power? Vulnerability? Etc…

Your question reminds me of the old movies where the rich men would propose to the maid. Meanwhile, the man’s mother is horrified and warns him of impending disaster because the maid is “not his equal.”

Given that many marriages (and most other relationships) contain many areas of inequality, I don’t see inequality as a deal breaker.

Sorry for the long winded answer. However, with-out further clarification, I would say, no.

TB, do you believe that marriage should be structured so that the man is the final arbiter? Of course inequality is an unavoidable part of life but the question is, do you think male dominant inequality should be institutionalized in marriage? I hope that’s clear.

Go ahead, keep bickering about equality between same-sex partners, etc, yada, yada, yada. If we let these muslim infidels succeed in colonizing our land then none of these issues would matter in the end. They will surely succeed in pulling the carpet under our feet as they are doing in europe.

Polygamy is the next step in “gay rights” movement. After all “bi-sexuality” is supposed to be an “orientation” just like “homosexuality”. If a “bi” male wants to “marry” another “bi” male and a woman, and they were all happy with the setup, how can we legally say no? There you are, de-facto polygamy!
Marriage is a legal matter, therefore a public,not private matter, therefore everyone`s business.
Men are quite simply the stronger sex. Women bear and give birth to children and are equipped to feed them for some time.
It`s hard labor(pun intended) does this make them losers David?  Does this make them unequal?
The state of Utah was not allowed to be a member of the United States until the Mormon dominated state disallowed polygamy.The stand that must be taken today by Western society will be so much harder. As was pointed put in the article we have demands for cultural “equality” and a dismissal of the importance of the reproductive sysytem in favor sexual satisfaction.

Darren said: “It`s hard labor(pun intended) does this make them losers David?  Does this make them unequal?”

If your argument held, then physically stronger men would should be able to dominate weaker ones. Is that your belief?

Dave: Do you believe that marriage should be structured so that the man is the final arbiter?

No but I don’t see what this has to do with polygamy vis a vis monogamy or cohabitation. It seems that the in all these relationships, the person who wants to end the relationship is the final arbiter.

Dave: Of course inequality is an unavoidable part of life but the question is, Do you think male dominant inequality should be institutionalized in marriage? I hope that’s clear.

Marriage actually reduces the inequality between a man and a woman in a reproductive relationship.  Marriage enables a mother and child to make more demands on a man than in reproductive relationships outside a marriage. Women have always been at a disadvantage in a sexual relationship with a man. Marriage compensates some. Here is how I would rank the power of a woman in conjugal relationships:

Monogamous marriage> polygamous marriage> unmarried cohabitation> unmarried polygyny > adulterous mistress > polyandry

Compared to the currently legal alternatives I don’t see polygamy as any worse.

David, You seem to be using some sort of convoluted logic to water down my point. That the stronger male whose female(wife)is carrying thier child should protect and care for her makes sense biologically and societally, oh, and Bibically.
This has absolutely nothing to do with(justifying I presume you mean) stronger men being able to dominate weaker ones.
You seem to want to deem everyone who disagrees with you as having some type of Atilla the Hun mentality.
I don`t believe the stronger have a right to dominate any more than the rich or well connected.

TB and Darren, your both avoiding my question so I will say it differently. Do you believe that male dominance should be, by law, a part of marriage.

Do you believe that male dominance should be, by law, a part of marriage.

No. Although, I’m not sure I quite understand what you mean by male dominance. I think marriage reduces male dominance in a conjugal relationship whether monogamous or polygamous.

David Page says,“ The Catholic Church believe women should be subservient to men, because David wrote this I do not believe he has read anything that the Catholic Church has written on marriage like the The Catechism of the Catholic Church, where point 2365 written by St. John Chrysostom explains how young husband should treat their wife. He says “young husbands should say to to their wives: I have taken you in my arms, and I love you, and prefer you to my life itself. For the present life is nothing, and my most ardent dream is to spend it with you in such a way that we may be assured of not being separated in the life reserved for us… I place you above all things, and nothing would be more bitter or painful to me than to be of a different mind than you.”In the Bible Tobias doesn’t even make love to his wife on the first night of their marriage, because he does not want lust, but sincerity. A true marriage is not about lust, its about a lasting love and respect. It is about respecting your spouses body and mind, through your life together that most probably will produce children. Gay marriage does not respect the human body, nor does artificial contraception, nor does masturbation. In a way sex can be compared with eating food. Eating drugs will cause the body to grow sick even though it can be pleasurable. Eating too much food can cause people to grow obese. Eating the right foods in moderation keeps he body and mind healthy. I have one of those lasting marriages. I don’t pretend to always live up to the high ideals that the Church teaches, but I do try. My husband and I have 11 children that span more than two decades. What we are learning through our family life is respect and commitment that is truly intimate and creative and pure, like what God’s love is like with each one of us. How is my marriage not mutual and equal?