hmmm…

tsk… tsk… definitely a case were evil does exist in this world. ergo, ...the devil, ...and hell.  hmmm, here’s wondering what the flipside would be like?  Would rather be worthy, ...and hoping there’s a heaven. 

ck :-)

What Josef Fritzl did over the period of those 24 yrs is without a doubt evil and cultishly demonic. As Carolyn mentions, “it beggars belief”. I am somewhat sceptical, however, of the idea of attributing his actions to the power of the devil, or to some evil supernatural phenomenon. Only Josef Fritzl can know -in the depth of his conscience- why he chose to perform the horrible actions that he did. All else is mere speculation on the part of others. As for the belief in the existence of hell: I’m sure his daughter could attest to that, all twenty four years of it. And just as bad has its antithesis in good, it seems to follow logically that hell would have its antithesis in heaven.

The Devil!!

Actually… I’m an agnostic, so while I concede the possibility of being ‘possessed by the devil’, and ultimate evil, I by no means think it likely. Josef Fritz was possessed by what any other amoral, sickening criminal is; a mental unhinging leading to blurred or absent understanding of ‘good and evil’, society’s constructs of those traits.

As an example, many sociopaths do not feel remorse for crimes committed, and live instead in an animal-desire world of pleasure and pain; however, their mental prowess does not -decrease-, and so they are able to use their human minds as a tool towards those goals. Lacking all empathy and morality, they often end up harming others, sometimes very seriously.

You also exhibit a misunderstanding of the theory of evolution:
“What, by the way, would be the evolutionary advantage here?”

In evolution, genes mutate, either in the gametes (sperm and eggs) or in the body of a fetus. The mutated genes that result in a trait beneficial to the survival and reproduction of that species is favored in nature, and continue in the species through reproduction. The genes that result in a flawed creature (either in terms of being able to survive or in reproductive ability) die out because they cannot compete with the superior genes.

In all likelihood, Fritzl’s behavior is not genetically based, or else his his family history would reveal similar circumstances, and his children would be at risk for similar behavior.
Bringing evolution into this argument is a failed attack on secularism on general, and it weakens your argument as a whole, unfortunately.

I don’t believe Fritzl is possessed by any ultimate evil; he is only extremely, deeply flawed, and in my opinion a failure as a human being.

But rest assured, I wholly agree on the need to prevent such criminals and crimes from rearing their heads in society; whether through God or science, a solution must be found.

Rea

The children, the victims in this case, were born innocent yet they suffered so greatly that one must ask the question:  If there is a God, who is claimed to be omniscient, omnipresent and omnibenevolent, then why did God allow these children to suffer so badly?  So badly, in fact, that they will never get over it.

Why did God not interfere with some kind of miracle, given that God can see all futures (if God is outside of time, that is)?

Why, in God’s universe where all of ‘his# children live, should such an innocent few be treated so badly?  What have they done to be on the receiving end of such horror?

This is the problem of evil.  A problem for theists to answer and as of yet, no satisfactory answer can account for such horrors.

Myself, as a non-theist and as a secularist, I point the finger partly at the Austrian authorities.  It is here that a failure in the system to protect children occurred.  Fritzl should not have had is criminal record wiped back in the 70s, especially given that on his record were convictions for sexual abuse.  If a proper system had been in operation then perhaps the children who were taken in as ‘abandoned’ by his daughter might have revealed more information at that time.

The majority of the blame, however, goes to Fritzl himself.  He is clearly a sick man and cunning enough to keep his horrid acts secret for so many years.  There’s no point in blaming supernatural forces pulling humans one way to evil and in one way to good.  The blame rests on him, and those who allowed him to get away with it.

Mr Beezle.

Of course, not only materialist/atheists, but also revisonist “Liberal” Christians, will rush to deny the (true) possibility that Satanic influence/demonisation - freely chosen by this person - is/was the root cause of this evil. Revisionsts often claim that the Satanic explanation is a kind of evasion, by which people excuse themselves and blame something supernatural, when it is really themselves who are to blame. I think the reverse is the case, that reducing it in this way enables people to evade any non-materialist explanations which of course, in our society, are so very unfashionable. Revisionists just like to pick-and-choose the cosy, lovey-dovey, non-challenging bits of the Gospel; so real Christianity/Christians are undermined from within. No wonder materialism/atheism is top dog at the moment. An excellent article.

C. S. Lewis ‘Screwtape Letters’ came to mind as i read this piece. Of course, “the fool says in his heart, there is no God” and the devil is really happy with that.

Rea Kosuke said…
“Josef Fritz was possessed by what any other amoral, sickening criminal is; a mental unhinging leading to blurred or absent understanding of ‘good and evil’, society’s constructs of those traits.”

I might grant you leniency on the first aspect- but good and evil as social constructs? Are you trying to tell me that what Fritz did is only evil because society says so? It is evil on an objective ontological level independent of what you or I say about it. The kind of reasoning you employ is what undermines any use of the word ‘morality.’ There is no true morality without including God and natural law in the equation. Otherwise we can’t really say that what Fritz and his ilk do is evil- more just an ‘unpleasant’ use of the power they’ve gained.

Thanks for the article. Will take it up with my friends.

Many many other bizarre things happen all over the world....its really a maddening world..demon or not, flawed or failed human being...all of us are responsible for what everyone does.. we cna do something to prevent such inhuman atrocities

On BBC the other day an elderly man from Fritzl’s town asked: ‘Is there really a God? What was he doing for all of those twenty four years?’ In the circumstances, was the man a fool? Even the Anglican Archbishop Rowan Williams all but asked a similar question after the 2004 South Asian tsunami. If saying there is no God makes someone a fool, what does the blind affirmation of the existence of God make the affirmer? A wise soul?
Anyway, I think there is no point haggling over the enormity of what Fritzl did. Can’t we all agree that this crime, or sin, or monstrosity, or whatever you want to call it, is so great that the most logical argument is that the chap is insane. Of course I know why certain people might not want to agree with me about Fritzl’s state of mind as it would challenge the freewill notion. Here is how Carolyn puts it: ‘Fritzl’s lawyer says he is insane.’
This guy is a cold meshuggeneh, pure and simple. Let’s wait and see what psychologists and psychiatrists will make of him in years to come. I bet nothing is ever going to be conclusive. The banality of evil - that is what Hannah Arendt describes how a normal-seeming man like Fritzl may be the vector of the most fiendish misdoings.
I think both the secular and religious sides should call a truce on this matter - it’s beyond them. It’s not something about which any side could claim a moral victory like the scandals of Catholic priests abusing young children.

Two remarks:
First, the lawyer will try to defend Fritzl, arguing that he is not guilty because he has a deep psychiatric disorder. Do we realize what does that mean?? It means taking all the responsibility away from him! Using this argument, many rioters and other violent people get away free, saying they were drunk… Come on!
Second, I read today that Fritzl dared to say yesterday in his first interview, he is not that bad ("I am not a monster") because he did not kill his victims, even though he could have done that. It is really amazing! What insolence!

There is a God.

Some people need to understand why God does not act against malice.  So, go search for the truth; there are many questions that need answers in this world: creation, good and evil, morality, death, etc.  So, I have been doing research (I am an engineer, I like data), the outcome: Christianity explains it very well to me.  My research continues and will never end. Atheist and agnostics raise many points, but to date, in my opinion, Christianity has the evidence in its favor.  Need answers, and your philosophy does not have the answers, start reading other books.

It’s unfortunate how many people are turned away from God by incidents like these… If God cared for Mr. Fritzl’s daughter and her children, why didn’t he stop these things from occurring?  The answer: there is none.  At least there won’t be an answer in this life.  Read through Psalms or Job and you’ll find that many of the writers of the Bible had the same questions that we ask today.  They oftentimes did not receive an answer from God; however, God walked with them and comforted them through their trials… I think this is better than having a complete understanding of why suffering occurs in this world.

How often we expect a showoff Devil, a Demonic possesion that recalls “The Exorcist”! Quite as often as we demand a God that punishes or interferes spectacularly with painfull situations.

As Nwachukwu Egbunike (above) recalled, “The Screwtape Letters” come to mind, and also some deeper books on the matter. I would suggest “Habla un exorcista” by Gabriele Amorth (sorry, only know the spanish title, original must be in italian) that gives, from an extremely experienced individual, an excellent insight on Satan’s actions.

The Devil will not usually make a man smoke and froth, he has no need to. It is enough to harden him for a moment and then, with a quiet conscience no longer blaming him and a little extra push from the Devil, either directly acting on his imagination or indirectly through other more or less hardened individuals (those of us that create today’s society, guilty of producing such individuals) the slope simply gets more pronounced and the person rolls down faster.

In my country we jest about “religious-muggers”, who don’t drink during lent (but keep mugging). However hilarious, this situation happens a lot: religious (be it Catholic, Christian or whatever) persons who cater their beliefs and take what better suits their needs or desires. That’s a very common devilish action. Don’t take my word, check (if you’re christian) the Scriptures or simply look around.

No need to showoff, no need to bluff. The Devil works in more subtle ways. Why did a case like Fritzl’s happened? Why didn’t God stop it? Because the Devil did his job, God did His (firstly, by respecting Fritzl’s liberty), but Fritzl didn’t. He catered, he let himself be pushed. Nobody forced him. He was, and still is (not legally speaking) quite free.