The topic as Dr.Fitzgibbons has noted is simple.  Genes & chromosomes determines whether 1 will be a boy or a girl. Those who are apologists for sex change maimings think they know the answers because they’re Drs.  Drs. & psychologists also have biases.  Also, I’m not religious & there are plenty of non-religious people who see something wrong with sex change maimings. 

Lesbian talk show host Tammy Bruce has written that a man who wants to become a woman is clueless as to what it means to be a woman & she believes that they must abolish this.  If you maim a boys genitals & put on a vagina,you’re not going to make it a girl. Being a woman or a man is what your ENTIRE history is from conception. 

Science is consistently evolving.  Sooner or later, they will find cures for Gender Dysphoria & homosexuality.  After this happens, the discussions will again change & in the future, scientists will be saying on how science was wasted all these years on sex change maimings & how so many bodies were maimed trying to make some1 that they are not.

ToMichelle Hogan
No one will deny the sex procedure is “successful” in terms of what individuals irrationally want, but neither can nor do people “actually” become the opposite sex (based on cellular dna) nor does the procedure remove their previous sex, but malforms the body. Most, (within your 98%) of their psychological symptoms do not get “cured”. Though happy with the procedure and the new “look” the “gender problem” and other psychological issues persist. This is not a societal problem, free will is not absolute, there is an objective reality in what the human body is that psychosis is the result of a deviation from. A person can identify with being an alien, that dosnt mean that the medical profession can make up an unfounded illness to treat it cosmetically. One does not give a mirror to a narcissist to improve their quality of life, rather they give them therapy to come to terms with objective reality and their self hate and whatnot. It is simply not a medical procedure (there is no biological evidence of malformation and or brain dysfunction (facts better than stats), but one of personal taste towards life that warrants at the very least that prepubescent children not be subject to and the government consider the laws guiding it very carefully.  At least you are right in one aspect, doctors do make mistakes, only in these numbers it is about 2% which is a hell of a lot of people in the view that one person castrated for the wrong reasons is too much, in light that it is not even a “sex cure”. Can a person get any medical procedure done to be “happy” with themselves? Or should happiness be brought to individuals with objectivity-subjectivity integrations? sex surgery does neither.

The problem is there is no reliable evidence to go on after one has accepted the core facts that there is no sex change taking place and hormonal pills or surgery are not a person’s sex it is manipulation of their sex whether they are happy about it or not.

Dr. NE Whitehead debunked the myth that social stigma is the reason why suicides, depression, drunkards & drug use among homosexuals, lesbians & transexuals.  Even in nations such as Holland, which is pro-homosexual, the suicide, depression & drug use rates are not much different as that of the U.S.,& this was pointed out by Dr. NE Whitehead. 

It’s noteworthy that the ACLU which claims to support free will is hostile to free will when it comes to repair therapy to cure homosexuality & GID, even if the client wants it.  How many people who engage in H&L;activities do so because they believe the politically safe ideologies of the AMA & APA that seeking therapy to go straight is not a choice, though they want to be straight ?  Many of the same people that support cloning are against scientific freedom when it comes to searching for cures of homosexuality & Gender Dysphoria (GID). What is it about the idea of a cure for homosexuality & Gender Dysphoria (GID) which angers people?  I don’t hate homosexuals, but I see something wrong with men having sex with men, women having sex with women & I see something wrong with sex change maimings. 

Also honestly, if it could be predicted that an unborn baby would engage in homo&lesbian;activities in the future or would have Gender Dysphoria (GID), then I would abort it.  I realize what I’m writing will anger some people but in my opinion abortion is justified if it could be predicted that an unborn baby would be a homosexual or would have GID.

The one who has way too long a name…

“I don’t hate homosexuals”.
and then…
“Also honestly, if it could be predicted that an unborn baby would engage in homo&lesbian;activities in the future or would have Gender Dysphoria (GID), then I would abort it.”

Huh, the second quote suggest that you hate homosexuals enough to *kill a baby*.

Well, regardless, I (and quite possibly everyone else besides MVC) will now proceed to ignore you.

Here’s hoping you have a nice life; with luck, therapy will help you towards that end.

I am on the same page as anyone else who thinks that abolish… is way out of line and needs to be ignored when he states outrageous and contradictory statements such as anonymous pointed out. Though abolish… might be arguing on the “same side” as i have recently come to, he has no grasp of the significance of human life and the complexity of the human psyche. The question is not what man should do to hinder such people cause they are “flawed” but rather what do these people need to find the happiness they are looking for that is not an illusion. They are human like the rest of us and have free will to live there life the way they choose. I, however, in trying not to confer my moral judgments upon them, think that just as much as if i had a brother or sister or any other family member and in wanting the best for them cannot and do not see the value of transgender surgery based upon the illusion revealed as subjective sex versus objective world participation. 

One last note: Abolish… your very name and claims only get a rise of anger out of people and do no justice to your claims or argument i suggest you try to understand other people’s positions and life choices before you attack them if anyone is going to get anywhere rationally.

No, I’m not in therapy. My comments justifying abortion if it could be predicted that a baby would engage in H&L;activities or would have Gender Dysphoria (GID) are out of line if you’re pro-life.  But I am pro-choice.  I’ve considered what if it could be predicted that an unborn baby would be a math genius or a famous athlete or some1 who can cure cancer. I’ve also considered what if it could be predicted that an unborn baby would become a mass killer such as Robert Hawkins who killed 9 people in Nebraska or Cho Tseung Hui, who killed over 30 people in VA Tech-perhaps they killed because of unknown biological or birth defect,given it was a thrill kill & not a crime of passion. 

I’m pro-choice because you can’t make laws which forbid or mandate abortions based on what a future baby will be if such predictions could be made. No, people who are already born & who engage in H&L;activities should not be killed.  I’m also against killing handicapped people already born, but if I knew that an unborn baby would be born w/o legs & arms, then yes I would abort it, because I would not want to be born. Given that abortion is legal & if it could be predicted that an unborn baby would have Gender Dysphoria (GID) or would engage in H&L;activities, then yes, abortion is justified, because it prevents future problems & thus it’s better if they’re never born. The world is a better place without sex change maimings & without H&L;activities.  I have no doubt that even some people who claim to be pro-life, would become pro-choice if it could be predicted that an unborn baby would have GID or homosexual.  I’m straight up & honest about where I stand on abortion, which is why I justify abortions if it could be predicted that an unborn baby would have GID, engage in H&L;activities, be born w/o arms & legs or would turn out to be a future mass murderer.  I know it offends some of you, but that’s how I see things.

abolishsexchanges and MVC are wrong as is Fitzgibbons. There are plenty of males who are genetically female (XX) and plenty of females who are genetically male (XY). So-called genetic sex is not the ultimate criteria of a man or a woman. It is the practical criteria-the outside anatomy. Sex change does change this anatomy. Although it may not be perfect, gynecologists can’t tell and a post-op transsexual woman certainly has genitals no different than a normal woman who has had some surgery down there or an intersexed person who has the same.

Melissa

Dr. Fitzgibbons is right.  Sex change maimings involve cutting off or maiming a body part to make some1 that they’re not.  If a penis is surgically attached to a vagina, it involves operating on the vagina, injecting hormones into the body & other risks.  Transexuals have to take a lifetime of hormones. 

If a male to female transexual has male patterned baldness, it will take place, though it maybe slowed down by female hormones.  Receding hairlines.  There have been cases where transexuals have committed suicides, sometimes many years after the maiming because of regrets over what was done.  Sex changes harm, even if apologists say otherwise.  Dr. Nicolosi has said that it’s bad for a Dr. to whiten a Black person’s skin because he or she thinks that they were born white instead of black.  The same thing with Gender Dysphoria.  This will be repeat, but what’s so sad is that in many schools, teachers are pushing GID.  Rather than curing GID, they’re encouraging 8 year old kids with GID to dress as the opposite sex or special bathrooms. 

In California, there was a bill signed in 2007 which violates free speech of those opposed to homosexuality & GID in public schools.  What it means is that public school teachers can only give a 1 sided view of homosexuality & GID-teachers & pupils who point out the harms of sex change maimings & who say that they see something wrong with homosexuality & GID face sanctions such as suspension.  There was an incident in California where students were suspended for carrying a sign saying “Sodomy is a sin” in reaction to having homosexual activists push their views.

It’s sad that homosexual activists push the view that homosexuality & GID is OK.  What’s worse is that opposing views are censored in Californi public schools.  Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed this public school law.  Enough of homosexual & worse transexual apologists pushing their views in the schools.  Incidentally, where’s the ACLU now?

I am so sorry that you are confused & choose to believe lies that the enemy of our creator tell you & make you feel. Yes I agree that “people are coming to believe that they can create, use, change and destroy life as they so choose."We all answer to the creator in the end."Political correctness” will and does divide us! Satan hates you & wants you confused against God & yourself. Ro.1:18-32(MB)But God’s angry displeasure erupts as acts of human mistrust &wrongdoing;& lying accumulate,as people try to put a shroud over truth. People refusing to worship him,trivialized themselves into silliness & confusion so that there was neither sense nor direction left in their lives.(A false god can be anything including self).
Refusing to know God,they soon didn’t know how to be human either—women didn’t know how to be women, men didn’t know how to be men. Sexually confused, they abused & defiled one another, women w/ women,men with men—all lust, no love.  (Today people call sex, “love” & they believe they can “love” anyone or any gender or thing they choose,after all they have these feelings, it’s called animal instinct/lust). (See Rom 1:27)2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness,& despise government/order. Presumptuous,selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. They despise interference from true authority, preferring to indulge in self-rule. 
12 -14They are brute beasts.In the very act of bringing down others with their ignorant blasphemies. Their evil will boomerang on them.1Jo 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things in the world. Tts 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him; Rom1:28 Even as they did not like to retain God in knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

to melissa
You should be aware that although there are very few “male’s” with XX and “females” with XY those “males” and “females” have genetic syndromes in regard to the sex determining factors on their sex chromosomes. The X Y of females is really an XX manifestation in a problem of the sry of the Y. In males with XX, the problem is explaining the male development or the presence of the sry factor. A person’s physical manifestation cannot be the criteria for determining a persons sex because it is not self-caused it is developed and comes from something that is the sex (reproductive) determining factor. A body is not simply revealed male or female, rather a developed and maintained male, female. If not the only other is that the body is not properly developed in genetic problems. If one is to base sex solely on physical manifestation, are castrated individuals all sex or sexless? The question points to an absurdity because mammals even if not properly developed, develop as close to their genetic sex as possible. The sry genetic determining factor needs to be studied more but does not show that a person is not genetically a male or female. I ask that you consider a genetics class in your future studies of so called “transgender surgery”.  One must realize that a male that has been castrated is not the same as a female that has had a hysterectomy. Though their genetic factors influence not only their sexuality and reproductive factors it shapes the body hormonally as a whole etc… A genetic male person taking hormones, has had breast implant, and hair and voice changes are only changing the appearance of their sex not their genetic identity. A female with a hysterectomy still has plenty of other objective womanly characteristics that make her a woman that a castrated genetic male does not have in any way even if he attempts to take hormones or have other surgeries and voice lessons. (I am not a geneticist) but the point is clear. Hope it makessense

to covered by him

your comments do not add anything to the validity of rational deliberation or bringing people closer to god in health. In that sense all that you have said so far is useless and people ignore justifiably. Yes god is unhappy with anything that damages or hinders the proper expression of creation but you are not to condemn them you know not their hearts. In any case if one is a firm believer in Jesus’ teaching they should know above all that he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. All the old testament quotes you use to attack (wrong way to do it) people with such a rationality are out of context and psychological understanding. The issue for you is not the law of man but the law of god and you probably do not know the relationship between them in truth and what that entails for limited creation and human natural ignorance. People learn the difference between ethical and unethical action, and transexual surgery is among those to be learned no matter what the intentions behind it. I suggest that before one attacks someone with the bible they read it in the context that is humanity and not what their preacher and friends think it means. If you take man out of the bible it loses its significance and purpose so do not do it in your theology especially in a day where psychology can help man find and interpret whatever truth of scripture there is to find. Your argument from faith falls on deaf ears to those intelligent to know that the attack is unfounded, but it hurts those who love god and are confused and you should ask if that moral sin falls to you the attacker and false judger.

Dear MVC, you are wrong again. I am able to teach many types of classes. There are “XX” males who indeed have the SRY gene translocated and there are “XY” females who indeed have no SRY gene. BUT, there are also
plenty of XX males who are SRY negative and XY females who are SRY positive. In other words, there are males who have
so-called sex chromosomes which are NO different than normal women’s sex chromosomes, and there are females who have so-called sex chromosomes which are NO different than normal men’s chromosomes. You would need to look at a gene on a NON-sex chromosome (an AUTOSOME) (example, upstream or downstream to SRY) to find a difference, for example, between a postoperative transsexual woman and an XY female (who can give birth).
BUT, guess what? There can be NO difference AT ALL in the DNA of such an XY female and a post-operative m to f transsexual in ANY of the so-called sex chromosomes OR autosomes, simply because it is not an arrangement in the coding sequence, but simply that an environmental agent (pollutant, for instance) turned
off a gene which would have caused an XY person to become a male, and thus caused the person to develop into an XY female. If a gene is turned off at week 4, you will get an XY female, yet if that same gene turns off in week 30, you will get an XY male (or perhaps a m to f transsexual) WITH NO changes in the genetics or the DNA if it is dues to an environmental agent.

To Melissa
I will not question your genetics know how again! Nonetheless i have to ask you to answer one fundamental question, if the body develops and grows as we all know it does, at what point is it and what does it to the body that makes it male or female in “normal” development? I agree with you that genes are not so cut and dry answers to the sex issue we are discussing, however, in knowing that a male is triggered at some point and that trigger may or may not be “ignited” the may or may not determines the sex and the sex development. So the fact remains that a male is a triggered sry fully developed body and a female is a non sry triggered body. People are either one or the other or a mal-developed of the two in reproductive terms. What ever or where ever the trigger is for sexual development, There is a trigger and it is located in the genetic triggers of the body that may or may not be the exact x or y but an environmental factor upon the code. Do you argue that a male or a female are only that way because of appearance what of development? I doubt that you think it is mere appearance knowing that you know genetic basics. The point is simply that there are male and there are females and there are no other reproductive sexes but only syndromes or mutations that need to have a cure to enable fertility and proper human fetal development. Human sexual development is not a matter of choice outside of healing oneself to there original sex. Perhaps what your argument can entail is that there are males with XX and females with XY but they ARE either male or female developmentally and genetically with considering the factor of the onset or silence of the sry signal. (I ask your pardon with regards to my remark of genetic studies) I do not agree that there is any genetic basis for people to desire transex surgery. You may find an argument for sexual preferences but the desire to become the opposite sex is psychological not genetic developmental factors

MVC

Dear MVC,
you ask “...at what point is it and what does it to the body that makes it male or female in “normal” development?”

It is not a single point, but a process, starting at fertilization and including puberty. What makes it that way is a combination of chemical factors, including androgens and AMH.

You state, “So the fact remains that a male is a triggered sry fully developed body and a female is a non sry triggered body.”

I disagree. A male or female may be developed by triggering another chemical which all embryos have. 

You write, “Human sexual development is not a matter of choice outside of healing oneself to their original sex.”

This is wrong. For instance, a person could have started out as two seperate sexes-one a normal male and the other a normal female. Then, these two early embryos could have fused into one person (whole body chimerism). Since the person was originally a normal male embryo and a normal female embryo, half of their cells are XX, half are XY, they have an ovary, a testis, a uterus, spermatic ducts, and ambiguous genitalia. What is healing themselves to their original sex? Human sexual development is also chosen, either directly or indirectly, through things as DES throuugh the placenta, ART..

You write “Perhaps what your argument can entail is that there are males with XX and females with XY but they ARE either male or female developmentally or genetically with considering of of the factor of the onset or silence of the SRY signal”.

No. There are not XX males or XX females just because of onset or silencing of SRY or SRY related signals. It’s too simplistic. It’s multifactorial. Presence of a phenotype, eg., ovaries, testes, vagina, penis, beard, breasts, arewhat I call sex.

I am not arguing there are not other major factors in sexual development but that all those factors that cause male or female development are what makes a person male, female, or mal- sexually developed considering the end of reproduction.  Genes have a major role to play in sexual development that cannot be denied. To what extent, may be put into question but without those “male” or “Female” factors “winning out over each other” (original sex) reproduction would not be possible.
I think that the simplistic problem on your argument is that sex is what is “expressed” cutting it off from the complex developmental processes that make sex and reproduction biologically possible. “Whole body chimerism” is not a problem at all because the body either develops Taking all factors into consideration genetic or otherwise as a healthy male, female, or mal-developed sex. Even in an intellectual separation of the sex characteristics from their unified reproductive goals and attempts to change the sex traits as many and as much as possible would not be enough to make a male totally female or a female totally male in an already developed body. They would need to be “reborn”.
It cannot be denied that a male is more than his beard, or his musculature its the combined factors for reproductive functionality. A separation between cause and effect of developmental reproductive sexuality like what your stating as the sex defining criteria, leads to absurd claim that a developed and fully functioning reproductive male, wearing a dress, makeup, or even with breast “implants” (not breasts) is “both” sexes. Sex is not appearance, sexual appearance is the result of healthy or mal sexual development.  Another interesting aspect in whole body Chimerism is that the body develops as a male female or mal sexually developed the choice is not the “baby’s” but the developmental process and all its factors that i do not deny which are factors towards one healthy teleology